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 Post subject: Motion detector issues
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:35 pm
Posts: 74
Hi Marc,

1) I been grappling with a problem for some time now were I get scenes with nothing in them being detected as having movement.
I think there are two problems.
Problem one. The scene with movement is used as a reference and compared to a new scene and then absense of movement is detected. I have the motion detector set to 'compare with previous picture'. I have also tried 'compare with prevous picture when no motion' detected but I find this suffers from the same problem and can be worse because it gets stuck continuously capturing 'no movement' scenes because the reference picture is wrong. This can occur if the movement is large and slow like someone stood in front of the camera for a few seconds. This then becomes the 'no movement' reference and when the person moves out of the way it starts to continuously capture blank scenes.

Problem two. Movement out of the scene triggers a capture. Here I see the % change is smaller than if the same sized subject was nearer the centre of the image.

Tip for a workaround for problem two:
Set the motion sensitive area to be smaller than the captured image area. When the motion moves out of the detection area and is detected the subject is hopefully captured between the motion area and the edge of the frame. Although if the subject is moving fast they could be out of frame before the capture is done. Then there is also the disadvantage that motion on the very edge of image is not detected.

Ideas:
a) Chop the scene into zones and set different sensitivities with increasing sensitivity the nearer the centre of the image. Movement out of the scene is then less likely to trigger an image capture while retaining a high sensitivity in the centre. Maybe this reduced sensitivity at the edge could be used to reduce the computation required too :)


Marc,
How does CamUniversal work for the two situations:
'Compare with previous picture' and 'Compare with previous picture with no motion' ? Is this just single frames?
If motion has to occur x times is used what happens to reference frame in each case?

b) Maybe the 'no movement' reference scene should be a rolling average of say the last 10secs of video. Even better, user can set the time or number or frames to be used for the average.

c) Freeze the reference image update for x ses after motion detected. This could allow lingering movement to exit scene. This would be different from the current option of wait x secs after movement. That option just stops capturing for x seconds which means I miss genuine movement in the scene.


2) I have also noticed a bug with the adding the % movement to the user text. If I delete all the user text I still find that 'My picture' text is added as well as the percentage.

3) Finally,
To protect against uploading too many files, too fast could an option for an upload limit be added. eg stop capturing (FTP upload) after x images in 60secs. Or stop capturing (FTP upload) after x kbytes uploaded in 60secs. And then an option for either resume capturing or stop and flag an error.

_________________
CamUniversal 3.5, Win XP Pro

4 USB Logitech webcams
QC Pro 4000 + Notebook Pro. Both on same PC and driver qc858enu.
QC Pro 5000 + Fusion. Both on same PC and driver qc1150enu.

See Homepage for QC Pro 5000 pictures.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 355
Location: Berlin/Germany
2) is already fixed for the next update.
Please insert a blank during the time.

I will answer more later!

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Marc Schneider

CrazyPixels Software Development


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 355
Location: Berlin/Germany
Hello,

Quote:
This can occur if the movement is large and slow like someone stood in front of the camera for a few seconds. This then becomes the 'no movement' reference and when the person moves out of the way it starts to continuously capture blank scenes.

No! If someone comes into the picture, there is a motion detected. This motion is still recognized as long as the person stands in the picture. This picture becomes not the "no movement" reference picture!
Only in case if you have selected to compare with the previous picture it becomes the reference picture!

Quote:
Problem two. Movement out of the scene triggers a capture. Here I see the % change is smaller than if the same sized subject was nearer the centre of the image.

I don't understand. Please give me a detailed sample!

Quote:
How does CamUniversal work for the two situations:
'Compare with previous picture' and 'Compare with previous picture with no motion' ? Is this just single frames?

Yes single frames!

Quote:
If motion has to occur x times is used what happens to reference frame in each case?

There was a bug in case you have selected to compare with the previous picture without motion. The reference "no movement" picture was set if the counter prevents the detection, although there was a detection. This is fixed now! :)

Quote:
b) Maybe the 'no movement' reference scene should be a rolling average of say the last 10secs of video. Even better, user can set the time or number or frames to be used for the average.

A lot of work! :shock:

Quote:
3) Finally,
To protect against uploading too many files, too fast could an option for an upload limit be added. eg stop capturing (FTP upload) after x images in 60secs. Or stop capturing (FTP upload) after x kbytes uploaded in 60secs. And then an option for either resume capturing or stop and flag an error.

You can reduce the testing interval. Or you can create a scheduler job which uploads from time to time the files!

_________________
Marc Schneider

CrazyPixels Software Development


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:35 pm
Posts: 74
Hi Marc,

I had problems this morning with the motion detector again. It seems it got stuck falsly seeing motion when there was none.

See my home page in signature for examples with % difference. You will see all the pictures with 90%+ motion but clearly nothing in the scene.

I think this happened because I started the cameras after the scheduled motion detection was due to begin. I have the 'compare image since last image with no motion detection' option set. I think maybe the reference image that was used was taken whilst the camera was settling down and adjusting its exposure etc. I have a delay of 60secs set before the motion detection begins but in the case of starting up CamUniversal after the scheduled motion detection is due to start then this 60secs is skipped.

Its just a guess as to what happned. Am I right?

_________________
CamUniversal 3.5, Win XP Pro

4 USB Logitech webcams
QC Pro 4000 + Notebook Pro. Both on same PC and driver qc858enu.
QC Pro 5000 + Fusion. Both on same PC and driver qc1150enu.

See Homepage for QC Pro 5000 pictures.


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 Post subject: [Bug] Is this a bug too?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:35 pm
Posts: 74
Is this a bug too? See previous post.

_________________
CamUniversal 3.5, Win XP Pro

4 USB Logitech webcams
QC Pro 4000 + Notebook Pro. Both on same PC and driver qc858enu.
QC Pro 5000 + Fusion. Both on same PC and driver qc1150enu.

See Homepage for QC Pro 5000 pictures.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 355
Location: Berlin/Germany
Hello,

Quote:
I think maybe the reference image that was used was taken whilst the camera was settling down and adjusting its exposure etc.

If the reference picture is taken in a moment when the camera is booting, changes itself parameters etc., then the motion detector can't work properly.
Be sure that this can't happen!

Quote:
I have a delay of 60secs set before the motion detection begins but in the case of starting up CamUniversal after the scheduled motion detection is due to start then this 60secs is skipped.
Please explain in detail! What have you done?

_________________
Marc Schneider

CrazyPixels Software Development


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:35 pm
Posts: 74
Hi Marc,

Here's what I think happened.

I was late starting up the software that morning and so the motion detection start time was much earlier in the day. I started up the software and of course the motion detection starts immediately because it way past the start time already.

I have the option to delay the motion detection start set to 60secs.

I know the 60 secs delay works when I manually start the motion detection and maybe it works when the scheduled motion detection starts normally, but when I startup the software long after the motion detection start time does the 60secs get used or is it skipped, ignored? I suspect it was skipped and the camera was still settling down casuing the false detection.

_________________
CamUniversal 3.5, Win XP Pro

4 USB Logitech webcams
QC Pro 4000 + Notebook Pro. Both on same PC and driver qc858enu.
QC Pro 5000 + Fusion. Both on same PC and driver qc1150enu.

See Homepage for QC Pro 5000 pictures.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 355
Location: Berlin/Germany
Hello,

it is good, that you have selected to wait some sec before the motion detector starts. This is useful if you start the motion detector automatically at startup. If the camera initialisation needs several sec to be finished it could happen, that images are already captured, although the initialisation is not finished.

But the webcams that I have tested needs no more then 1-3sec.!


Quote:
I know the 60 secs delay works when I manually start the motion detection and maybe it works when the scheduled motion detection starts normally, but when I startup the software long after the motion detection start time does the 60secs get used or is it skipped, ignored? I suspect it was skipped and the camera was still settling down casuing the false detection.

The delay is not skipped! I have tested with different settings for the delay time and the motion detector running time and can't find a problem!

_________________
Marc Schneider

CrazyPixels Software Development


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:35 pm
Posts: 74
I can now reproduce this issue.

I have 'compare picture with last picture with no motion' option set.' Set the delay to 60 sec. Start the motion detection. Then move the camera slightly during the first 60secs. The picture difference remains at 0 during the first 60s indicating that the delay timer is working. Immediately after 60secs is finsished the picture difference then jumps to a high % even though no movement is now occuring.

From this I conclude that the reference picture that was used must have been taken during the 60sec delay before the camera was moved!!! Only the comparison calculation is delayed, not the reference picture

_________________
CamUniversal 3.5, Win XP Pro

4 USB Logitech webcams
QC Pro 4000 + Notebook Pro. Both on same PC and driver qc858enu.
QC Pro 5000 + Fusion. Both on same PC and driver qc1150enu.

See Homepage for QC Pro 5000 pictures.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 355
Location: Berlin/Germany
Hello,

Quote:
From this I conclude that the reference picture that was used must have been taken during the 60sec delay before the camera was moved!!! Only the comparison calculation is delayed, not the reference picture

You are right! Thank you!
I have fixed this for the next update!

_________________
Marc Schneider

CrazyPixels Software Development


Facebook https://www.facebook.com/crazypixels.software
Twitter https://twitter.com/crazypixelssoft
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